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 Forum Index > H.W.F. Archives > Archive - Raptor Cams - Other than Eagles.
 Calgary, Alberta - 2012
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By: Bluebird1 (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:38 PM EDT  
Bluebird1

Feelings are indeed running high and that is understandable because we seemed to be witnessing a small miracle on this nest - our beautiful mama rising far beyond any expectations and not only supplying ample fish for her family of three and successfully defending her nest all the while but also having success in passing on the skills they needed to survive and fish on their own. Then one of the fledglings disappeared and in the same time frame one is found on a balcony and taken into care. With baited breath we waited for information on the osprey that many of us felt certain came from our precious nest, only to have the door slammed rudely on our questions and concerns. We will never know whether this bird did indeed come from this nest, - I see that you have finally added a bit of information, Rick, stating that the bird taken in was a male so that may make some of us feel better. Most of all it is good to know that it was placed into a flight cage though perhaps it was already in shock by that time so there are questions that may never be answered.

Still it is good to ask the questions or else how do we learn. And if we do not advocate on behalf of the birds who will....

Gerard`s first point is the one that has haunted me all along:

-1-Was this bird even given a chance to fly,or was it put into an enclosure right away,every bird has a right to flight,many birds may be thin due to many
circumstances,does this give any group the right to hold it,force feed it?``


To that end I think we who care have not only the right to pursue the facts in this case but the responsiblity regardless of whether the osprey in question came from this nest as many may still believe it did, or not.

For instance I did not see the date that the juvenile was examined under anaethesia and died, JudyB, hopefully you or Rick can post that today. I also think that we deserve a detailed follow-up, again regardless of what nest this fledgling came from. And for further clarification can anyone find out what `messed up bloodwork` means - does it mean everything was ruined so nothing was learned from it, or that there are problems too scientific to explain to we ordinary cam-watchers without multiple degrees in ornithology and veterinary medicine.

Another helpful fact to hear would be how many OSPREY have been taken in and how many successfully released by the centre as numerous times they have expounded on their great knowledge of and experience with caring for ospreys.
( I was very surprised to see that one explanation of the osprey`s plight might be from eating tainted carrion, as they are known to eat only fresh fish, one of the big reasons they die so readily in care).

(BTW, Gerard, I am wondering if you mistook the post from Terry that followed jkr`s short post as coming from her). I also take exception to Terry`s request that we ``RESPECT THE CWRC AND NOT SPEAK OF THIS ANYWHERE OFF THIS FORUM THREAD`` as puzzling and inexplicable. If we do not advocate on behalf of the birds we love and follow then who will do this. (Judy, jkr, has been wonderful here and I have not seen any comments that would lead to your thinking that you should not speak up on behalf of this or any other osprey, Gerard.)

I think that there has been an unfortunate misunderstanding here, again expiated by a dearth of information. I think that we did abide by requests not to pester the CWRS for updates, and we expect and deserve some respect and information from them at the end of the day.

Hopefully we can all calm down and plan a course of action that will prevent a similar happening in the future, ie. what many of us feel was the terrible injustice done to this beautiful bird. If it was ill and could not be saved so be it. Lots of osprey face the same short lifespan, why not let them live out this life as a free-flying bird when to bring them in to care means almost certain death.... And why be so secretive and rude to caring citizens who might become the biggest champions of your centre, if indeed holding the bird was your best option... Many good points to ponder, imo.


J D

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By: Woodlands Bleu (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:58 PM EDT  
Woodlands Bleu

Hi All!

Just a few thoughts to add here which may help (or not). First, Rick, thank you! You did the best you could do and so willingly.

Second, JudyB and jkr, both of you have the words of wisdom and in my opinion, are always diplomatic. We do the best we can with the information we can gather. We all have individual burdens we are bearing and imho it is absolutely necessary to never surmise that someone is "telling you to keep quiet" when they are not. Discourse is fine; but it must be polite. Too many times in life you can make an assumption about something and then when gathering all the facts discover you were totally wrong.

I am very proud of our Admins, and TA's as well as the posters on this site. This has been a rough time frame with so much hitting at the same time. Let's work together, trusting in the wisdom gathered over time, while listening to each other with ears wide open to learn and understand.

I do not feel in any way that HWF and this rescue group have any issues if we just thank them for what they tried to do, while understanding that it was not "in our hands" - Rick saw it first hand and knows they do their best. Trust him!
With respect to all y'all wonderful folks who are so giving of your care and attention.......
carolyn


Choose joy.......
Since Sept 2009.
carolyn


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By: Rick W (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:10 PM EDT  
Rick W

Are you SERIOUS you are OWED information. No one OWES you anything, why does anyone OWE you anything???.

Who will advocate for these birds??????

Ah! Maybe the people who are ACTUALLY doing something to HELP these birds beyond sitting at a flippin' keyboard spewing your opinions, that's WHO!!!!!!!!!

Yes I am pounding on my keyboard right NOW because I am seriously ANNOYED at the nerve of some people.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!


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By: BET (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:21 PM EDT  
BET

I will refrain from any comments on the rights and wrongs of events regarding the Juvenile Osprey that Rick rescued as I tend towards the "foot in mouth" disease.

Rick, I thank you for all the effort you put forth for this bird, and for all the rescue work you apparently do. The end result was not what you, the CWRS, or we here at the Hancock Calgary Osprey forum were hoping for. That does not negate the work you all did. Again, I say Thank You

The river is still flowing by the empty nest. I wonder how long we will continue to be able to see it this year?


BET
Registered Member - June 2006

Avatar: My dog Rita


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By: lilywriter (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:37 PM EDT  
lilywriter

Quote by: Rick W

Are you SERIOUS you are OWED information. No one OWES you anything, why does anyone OWE you anything???.

Who will advocate for these birds??????

Ah! Maybe the people who are ACTUALLY doing something to HELP these birds beyond sitting at a flippin' keyboard spewing your opinions, that's WHO!!!!!!!!!

Yes I am pounding on my keyboard right NOW because I am seriously ANNOYED at the nerve of some people.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!



Dear Rick,

I greatly appreciated what you did for this Opsrey, for the other birds you have assisted as an excellent volunteer for the CWRC and for the information you provided to those of us who post in the forum. I also hear the anger in the words you have written above and the frustration you must be feeling. One of the problems with forums, and any type of social media used today, is that it is too easy to respond quickly. In addition, we cannot see the faces of the people who are typing. Often, as soon as we hit post or send, we realize we should have used a different word or words.

Having said that, I must comment on your words about the people who are "sitting at a flippin' keyboard." Please do not judge those of us who are sitting at the keyboard.

Instead, be thankful that you are one of the lucky ones who can physically rescue the wildlife you have. Feel joy that you have held these wonderful, amazing creatures in your arms. Know how blessed you are to see them return to the wild. But do not judge the people at the keyboard as not actually doing something. Many organizations like the CWRC need monetary support and it is often the people sitting at keyboards who provide the monetary support to help these organization provide care to animals.

I, and many other people, will never have your opportunities, Rick, but that does not mean we have not actually helped birds and other wildlife.

Last year, while recovering from cancer, I sat at the flippin' keyboard, watched the osprey at the ENMAX nest and posted to the forum. The people at the forum helped me in my recovery. While I am not an osprey or an owl, I was actually helped.


Christine


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By: JudyB (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:47 PM EDT  
JudyB

Rick, thank you for posting the picture of the owl - what a beautiful creature - and what a look he or she is giving the person with the camera! love

J D, Terry was repeating my request from an earlier page that we respect CWRS's right to release information about the chick that was in their care when or if they choose. I understand not everyone agrees, but the request is mine.

Everyone - including me very embarrassed - please take a deep breath - or three - before posting.

As Christine beautifully pointed out, we all want what is best for wildlife. How we work towards that differs from person to person - and from group to group. Together, we can move mountains. And help little chicks from time to time.

hug

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By: Rick W (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 06:08 PM EDT  
Rick W

Christine,

You are correct and I may have flown off the handle a bit. Sorry,

I am likely being a bit sensitive for the feeling I need to justify the actions of anyone at CWRS or myself, it feels like some here are quick to criticize, and demand answers. I don't see the need for anyone myself or CWRS to HAVE to answer anyones questions, we can do so if we feel like it. I don't mean to sound snide but what gives anyone the right to demand answers? CWRS isn't some gov't run nor funded organization, they don't have to answer to anyone. There time is better spent looking after the animals in their care rather than jumping through hoops impossed by someone who has no right to demand anything.

Then you have others here who ask if we "have any right" to hold or feed the animals, then in the next breath criticizes the care we give.

I don't mean to demean anyone with my flippin' keyboard comment, as people can achieve great things from behind their keyboard.
It's the comment of "who will look after these animals" that annoyed me. People like the fine people at CWRS are looking after them, only to have others criticize and second guess their actions.

The blood work was "messed up" meaning the bird was very sick, what exactly that means I don't exactly know. If the test was messed up they'd have taken more blood not just gave up. It seems that some here don't want to believe that CWRS could possibly have done everything possible to help and have stated that he should have been left to die. So which is it? Should we just leave them alone to die on a balcony 16 floors up? or should we do everything possible to help? You can't have it both ways.


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By: terrytvgal (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 07:04 PM EDT  
terrytvgal

NOTE!! I did not read Rick's post above this before making my remarks


J.D. said:

(BTW, Gerard, I am wondering if you mistook the post from Terry that followed jkr`s short post as coming from her). I also take exception to Terry`s request that we ``RESPECT THE CWRC AND NOT SPEAK OF THIS ANYWHERE OFF THIS FORUM THREAD`` as puzzling and inexplicable. If we do not advocate on behalf of the birds we love and follow then who will do this. (Judy, jkr, has been wonderful here and I have not seen any comments that would lead to your thinking that you should not speak up on behalf of this or any other osprey, Gerard.)



Hi all, I have been away and only now do I come here to see there is ongoing discussion about the events surrounding the osprey in care. I am so very sorry if my remarks have been a source of bad feelings here. I do try to follow up if I make a remark I feel could be a source of discord for those who read it. I was not as vigilant as I should have been in this case.

Reading my comment now, I see that it may have led to more than one interpretaton.-- I assumed that in the context of the posts before mine that my concern would be obvious. Clearly it was not.

My intent in making that comment was to remind people that we were somehow-- how I do not know-- given information not made available to the wider public at the time it was posted here. That was something precious and I am sure it was relayed to Judyb? with the understanding that it not be reposted -- an indication that there was a thread of trust to build on over time. If we had taken that Specific Info. that the osprey did not survive to other websites the result would have been more dramatic than it was here. And any trust would have been damaged.

I am right beside each and everyone here in my wish that CWRC had a more open policy with respect to their patients... the bottom line is they do not make patient information available to the public. So be it. At HWF we always try to respect the policies of the wildlife rehabbers we may have contact with through a mishap at one of the many nests we follow. I know that everyone here understands, despite their sadness and frustration, that publicly expressing anger toward a rehabber is Not the way to create a trusting relationship with any rehab. facility.

Everyone here has suffered greatly when a bird we have come to know dies. Most of us have been through it many times over the years. It never gets easier.

I am very sorry if my comments have caused additional pain for anyone here. Above all, as JudyB has remarked, we try to be respectful of the many concerns and opinions of the folks who post here at the HWF forums. We try our best to balance that with respect for the other organizations who also care for wildlife.

Rick, I am so in awe of what you do! Without people like you who make time in your life to rescue wildlife we'd have no understanding at all of how to undo some of what humans have done to make the would so much more dangerous for the creatures we share it with.

Thanks all for reading my post.

Terry


I came for the eagles, and stayed for the friends I made

Terry, Coquitlam BC


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