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 Forum Index > H.W.F. Archives > Archive - Raptor Cams - Other than Eagles.
 Calgary, Alberta - 2012
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By: Anonymous: Gerard () on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 10:09 AM EDT  
Anonymous: Gerard

I cannot just sit back without my final summary regarding the osprey that has perished in rehab,first of all:
1-Was this bird even given a chance to fly,or was it put into an enclosure right away,every bird has a right to flight,many birds may be thin due to many
circumstances,does this give any group the right to hold it,force feed it?
2-The bird was declared immediately upon capture as a female,so was the juvie from the Calgary nest,we will never know,it may have been,
it was so thin,i gather after been locked up in a cage,unwilling to adapt as they do not in captivity,a known fact for ospreys,of course it was thin!
3-That it ate carrion and possibly lead poisoning,none of this is investagated so thats an assumption,as most of mine are,but i'll admit it!
4-I do believe they are a caring facility,however! i do not feel they got it right this time.
5-I have received an e-mail from people who are upset about a certain development,i was also surprised that jkr is working as security detail
for Rehab,and that she has the gall to state that she will be watching so carefully,and what will you do jkr???
people are free to express themselves,freedom of speech,ever hear of that,when you to tell people they should shut up! you make yourself
sound foolish and possibly a little grandios,your a moderator for Hancock,and nothing else,your no more then any
person who wishes to post and express their views,far be it if society was measured by dominating statements as you put out.
6-I love and respect you JudyB,but i do not agree with everything you have stated,it's not personal! However when someone at Hancock tries to tell
me what i can and cannot say,they get no respect!
6-As i have told a person before with a title at Hancock,if you have a problem with my open-ness,go ahead and try to have me deregistered,because
if this is what Hancock is about,i rather be anywhere but here!
7-I never wrote on their face-book out of respect for JudyB,definitely not you jkr,and never tell me in a round about way to shut up,what a joke.
8.I will be at Ayers next year to support my friend,however,our page will be one of honesty and thruth,we will not try to silence someone because of
their views.
9-Have as wonderful winter,ospreys in Calgary are still been fed by males at their nests as they are also on the same schedule as Newfoundland ospreys
and migrate more towards the end of September,peace out.





       
   
By: JudyB (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 11:41 AM EDT  
JudyB

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Gerard. As I've said before, I appreciate your knowledge of ospreys and the caring and concern, you bring to this. I have a couple of comments and clarifications to add, which I'll insert below in purple.


Quote by: Gerard

I cannot just sit back without my final summary regarding the osprey that has perished in rehab,first of all:

1-Was this bird even given a chance to fly,or was it put into an enclosure right away,every bird has a right to flight,many birds may be thin due to many circumstances,does this give any group the right to hold it,force feed it?

2-The bird was declared immediately upon capture as a female,so was the juvie from the Calgary nest,we will never know,it may have been, it was so thin,i gather after been locked up in a cage,unwilling to adapt as they do not in captivity,a known fact for ospreys,of course it was thin!

I think that "declared" is a bit too strong - they said they thought it might be female because of the size, but that was a guess based on first impressions; I may have compounded the confusion by using "she" when I posted. Looking at CWRS's facebook page, they used "he" - though I don't know if that was the guess of the person typing the report, or just because "he" is more often used when the gender isn't known.

3-That it ate carrion and possibly lead poisoning,none of this is investigated so thats an assumption,as most of mine are,but i'll admit it!

I agree that they are theories they will explore in the necropsy - I wrote "they at first suspected lead poisoning" and "They are thinking that she may have gotten into some bad carrion (dead animal) but aren't sure at this point." - by which I intended to say that they did not know yet (and may never know - many necropsies don't produce a clear cause of death).

4-I do believe they are a caring facility,however! i do not feel they got it right this time.

5-I have received an e-mail from people who are upset about a certain development,i was also surprised that jkr is working as security detail for Rehab,and that she has the gall to state that she will be watching so carefully,and what will you do jkr??? people are free to express themselves,freedom of speech,ever hear of that,when you to tell people they should shut up! you make yourself sound foolish and possibly a little grandios,your a moderator for Hancock,and nothing else,your no more then any person who wishes to post and express their views,far be it if society was measured by dominating statements as you put out.

Jkr does not work for CWRS; she has been to Calgary and visited the nest site, and probably has a much better idea of the general area and distances involved - but as far as I know she has never had any contact with CWRS before this happened. She does volunteer at O.W.L. when she can (which is not often as she does not live in that part of BC) - but they are two very different organizations.

And people are free to express themselves here only up to a point. Personal attacks on other members or on HWF or on outside organizations are not tolerated. People are welcome to disagree strongly - you have every right to say that you do not agree with the decisions that CWRS made in this case, and to say why you believe those decisions were wrong; you do not have the right to use this forum to say that the people who run CWRS are evil or incompetent or bad people. There are legal limits on free speech. You can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater. And you can't say things that could damage or defame a person or organization without proof. Unless you have a copy of the medical report on the chick, and someone with credentials willing to say that it shows something questionable - you can't question their professional competence on this forum.

I also feel that your comments to/about jkr are out of line - but for now I'm leaving them as your suggestions for improving how this forum should be run. This does not mean I agree with your assessment - far from it. But because jkr is, like me, a "public figure" here - I'm allowing more leeway than I normally would. But I strongly urge you to make sure any future comments are focused on our actions, not our motives or our personalities. Thanks.


6-I love and respect you JudyB,but i do not agree with everything you have stated,it's not personal! However when someone at Hancock tries to tell me what i can and cannot say,they get no respect!

6-As i have told a person before with a title at Hancock,if you have a problem with my open-ness,go ahead and try to have me deregistered, because if this is what Hancock is about,i rather be anywhere but here!

7-I never wrote on their face-book out of respect for JudyB,definitely not you jkr,and never tell me in a round about way to shut up,what a joke.

Thank you for not commenting there.

8.I will be at Ayers next year to support my friend,however,our page will be one of honesty and truth,we will not try to silence someone because of their views.

9-Have as wonderful winter,ospreys in Calgary are still been fed by males at their nests as they are also on the same schedule as Newfoundland ospreys and migrate more towards the end of September,peace out.

Looking back through my notes, the last time the chicks were seen on cam is as follows (first date is last time all chicks were seen, second date is the last time any chick was seen); they may have been in the area after that, but there were generally at least a few days after the last sighting before the cam went off:
2012 - Sept 4-11
2011 - Sept 7-11 (cam off Sept 14)
2010 - Sept 14-15
2009 - Sept 6-25
2008 - Sept 7-25
(I will note that I have seen tagged chicks that leave quite soon after fledging and do just fine - and also have seen some that have stayed quite a while, so believe it depends somewhat on the genetics/instincts of the chicks how soon they set out on their own.)

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By: lilywriter (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 12:08 PM EDT  
lilywriter

Hi All,

I understand the frustration Gerard is feeling and the sorrow we all feel about the loss of the beautiful osprey at the CWRC. It was a difficult situation and I am not pleased with the way CWRC handled the situation. I am pleased, though, with the way everyone at the forum dealt with it. My feeling is that the CWRC were not comfortable or able to handle the requests for information or concern by the public for the Osprey and so mishandled the opportunity to deal with the public and we were not given information in a timely manner. I also believe they did not appreciate the well-meaning suggestions offered to them. I do not know enough about the CWRC to know if the staff were familiar enough to deal with osprey. Unfortunately, an osprey did not survive and I hope the CWRC learned a great deal from the situation and will improve in the future.

I think the people at the forum have done a excellent job discussing the situation and, jkr and JudyB, thank you very much for your concern for the osprey and what you tried to do. With all the happened at the Calgary nest this year, there have been highs and lows -- from feelings of helplessness during the terrible hail storm to sorrow over the loss of the dad to worry about the chicks to joy over the skills of the mother. Emotions have been running high, and I must admit, mine still are. I cannot look at my pictures of dad Osprey without tears coming to my eyes. This is why I have not posted anything recently.

I go to different osprey nests around Calgary and some of the osprey have already left at some nests while at other nests they are still there. The osprey at one nest I check left around the same time as the ones at the ENMAX nest while at two other nests I still see some. At one, I am sure the mother has left but the dad and the two chicks remain.

I checked the camera this morning and saw what I think was a female flicker checking out the nest. She was sure poking around.

Click on image to download


Christine


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By: jkr (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 01:23 PM EDT  
jkr

Pardon me Gerard but I feel your comment about me is totally out of line. I have never told anyone on this forum to shut up and I don't treat people that way.

Yes I have lived in Calgary and I have been to the nest on many occasions when I'm there to visit family, but I haven't lived there for 30 years.
I do not work for CWRS nor am I affiliated with them in any way. I do not have any say in the care they give their rescued birds.
I am just as upset as everyone else by the final outcome....in fact maybe more so since I've followed this family closely for the past 6 years.

I did write to the Zoo and Enmax to inquire about the osprey chick but I did not get any email back from them. I have had no contact with the CWRS except on their Facebook page when I asked if they had a pool cage for flight training and hunting. They informed me they knew how to care for osprey. That's all the news I ever got from them.

I do volunteer for OWL in Delta, BC if/when I am available if they need a pick up person in my area of the province, but OWL also has a very different facility than Calgary does.

Gerard you know as well as I do that each case is different when a bird is in rehab care. Most make it to freedom but sometimes they don't.

If you feel that I'm not doing my "volunteer job" at HWF correctly then I will gladly resign.




Quote by: Gerard


5-I have received an e-mail from people who are upset about a certain development,i was also surprised that jkr is working as security detail
for Rehab,and that she has the gall to state that she will be watching so carefully,and what will you do jkr???
people are free to express themselves,freedom of speech,ever hear of that,when you to tell people they should shut up! you make yourself
sound foolish and possibly a little grandios,your a moderator for Hancock,and nothing else,your no more then any
person who wishes to post and express their views,far be it if society was measured by dominating statements as you put out.




~Judy~


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By: Rick W (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 03:11 PM EDT  
Rick W

The Osprey (he yes it was a boy) was on a balcony overnight, I rescued him around 1:00. I took him to the centre where they checked him out and took blood samples right away. Those samples were extremely "messed up" sorry for the informal terms but I am not a vet. He was examined by an extremely capable team for experienced vets, vet techs and specialists. I was there through the whole exam right up till they placed HIM in a large enclosure (out doors to minimize HIS stress) The Osprey never flew, attempted to fly or do much at all, while I was there.

If you in your infintie wisdom could have done more all the power to ya!!!

As for all the speculation and inuendo about what coulda, shoulda, woulda been done. They don't keep birds around for entertainment at CWRS they are extremely capable and have dealt with Ospreys before. Contrary to what some here think there are DOZENS of nest all along the river that this bird could have come from. Believe me If I'd have known the s__t storm this was going to create I'd have never said a word.


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By: jkr (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 03:24 PM EDT  
jkr

Rick, you did exactly what any rehab volunteer would have done. You obviously love animals or you would never have become a volunteer to begin with. The outcome was NOT your fault. That little osprey may have well died alone in the wild but you did give him a chance by helping him. hug

I know this is totally a different subject but has anyone ever documented how many actual osprey nests are within the Calgary city limits along the river ?


~Judy~


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By: JudyB (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 03:38 PM EDT  
JudyB

Thank you for posting, Rick. I am so thankful that you were able to rescue the chick - the thought of him dying alone on a balcony in sight of the sky he couldn't reach is almost more than my heart can bear. sad

I admit that I'm used to rescue/rehab groups that provide information about the patients in their care, at least when there's been some interest expressed - so the fact that CWRS not only did not provide any additional information about the rescued chick after posting his intake picture - but also said that they will not be responding to questions or posting status updates - took me a bit by surprise. The caption on their initial post said "he is recovering nicely" - which sadly now appears to be a bit premature, but given that there was nothing in their two subsequent posts to suggest that there were serious health issues involved, it's not surprising that there were questions at what appeared to be his sudden death.

It is sad that the young osprey did not survive - I know that there are a lot of challenges for the young of any species, and suspect that the types of challenges change as humans move into areas that had been wild, and animals/birds/etc move into areas very different from those known by their ancestors - but it's always sad when a living creature dies (and being human, a bit more so if it's one I've seen grow up - or similar enough to one I've watched for a bit of transference).

But it's also sad to think that this may cause a nearly insurmountable breach between CWRS and HWF - both of which are concerned about wildlife and habitat issues. Things would have been so much different all around if you'd been able to come back in a week or two to post a picture of a successful release. I'm sure we still would have wished there had been a couple of progress reports - but we truly do know that different organizations have different policies and procedures, and do our best to respect those.

I hope we can find a way past this - but either way - thank you for what you did - and for all that you do.

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By: Rick W (offline) on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:17 PM EDT  
Rick W

CWRS is a great organization, I have rescued AND released owls, hawks, and falcons.

Here is a pic of a owl I rescued, he'd been shot this was on the day that I got to go release an owl that was SHOT. Not flew into a window but SHOT with a gun and they were able to rehab and release this magnificent owl.


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